发信人: globus (小笨), 信区: Biology
标 题: my two cents - combined version
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Apr 26 02:47:39 2010, 美东)
Thanks for the interests in my posts. Following Glasscat's suggestion, belowis a combined (and edited) version.
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Glasscat不知为啥没有把他的帖子补完。我也来加上我的2 cents。
我是劝退的。中国的教育文化是功利性的，而很少注重个人的喜好。学而优则仕。追逐荣誉进而改善生活。至少我这一代人，高考时生物系难进（所以荣耀）又容易出国（改善生活），所以就进来了。但是久了以后发现生物研究并不能比别的专业带来更多的荣耀，生活是明显不如同龄的朋友。所以如果没有个人的兴趣在支持，留在生物里就很没有必要。越早转走越好。
但我还留在生物研究里。以下就是给那些有志于在生物学术道路上走下去的。
I apologize for using English for the remaining, but this allows me to writemuch faster.
Even in biomedical studies, there can be multiple paths. There will soon be more openings in the biotech and pharmaceutical industry when the economy comes back. About 7-8 years ago, when the economy was turning strong, many of my friends got nice jobs in industry immediately out of graduate school, or with limited postdoc experience. Given health needs are indispensible
similar things will likely happen again soon.
However, I know more about the academic job, and will only focus on it.
General aspects:
1) Reading books: There are many books from established scientists about what it takes to become a successful scientist. I like these several: “Advice for a young investigator”, “A Ph.D. is not enough”, “At the bench”, for a later stage “making the right moves” and “At the helm”. Spend time reading them if you want to move on in academia.
2) Knowing what you want or what is expected from you for a faculty position in a good institute. Two aspects: A good colleague, and a good and unique scientific identity that can self-support (through writing grants). See also the later session about finding a faculty job.
a. Being a not-so-good colleague can really hurt your chance of getting a good job, no matter how strong your other aspects are. There will be enough phone calls to your former and current colleagues to check on you during job hunting. And a sentence like “he is not a good colleague” can go a long long way in the final decision. You will not become a good colleague overnight. This is an ability and a reputation that takes a long time to build. Help you colleagues whenever you can, interact with your colleagues and share their interests. You cannot only do this among Chinese friends because there are no departments other than those in China that are dominated by Chinese.
A good colleague also needs to have common sense. Do not request, talk or think inappropriately. When somebody think that he is working very hard by going an 9-5 schedule and never show up during the weekend, when somebody think he deserves a co-first authorship by contributing an idea and when somebody think his support is from tax money and has nothing to do with his
mentor, then this person is hard to become a good colleague. Common sense is to some degree a gift – some are born to be better. But you can improve your common sense by consistently sensing others’ feedbacks, directly or indirectly.
b. A unique scientific identity means easy to get support, less competition and more collaboration. A scientific identity can come by from many aspects: you may have a unique technique, or you may have a unique preparation, or you may have a unique question (or an angle to a question). No matter what, you have to be differently in an important way. The
questions that can be answered by your technique, preparation or angle have to be so obviously important that they can wake you up at night. They also need to be different enough from what others (especially your former mentor) would do. Such an identity can be achieved by developing an important technique that everybody wants (that is why Sunny Xie’s postdocs are so popular), by combining your different expertise during your Ph.D. and postoc to answer an question, by moving on to a different cell type/region where similar questions are important, and by unique critical thinking that allow you to go into further depth than others.
3) Unless you are ready to go back to China after your training, try to join at least one lab (out of your Ph.D. and 1-2 postdoc labs) that has a PI from a western countries and a majority of non-Asian members. There are a lot of subtle value, culture and other stuffs that you will not learn from a Chinese PI (for example, how to grab credit without much contribution). You
don’t have to follow what Americans do, but you do need to understand the situation and know how to deal with these kinds of things.
4) Have a long term plan and think ahead of time.
a. I know somebody who want to switch field in his 7th year of postdoc because although he is clearly capable and has nice publication records, his field (clinical related) is nearly saturated and difficult to take him as a faculty (without a MD). It is too late. He should have thought earlier and
moved on faster.
b. Another thing is that what is hot right now is going to cool down by the time you come out. Even if it is still hot, all the postdocs trained right now will have filled most of the positions by the time you come out. You have to see the trend and go in early before it gets so ‘hot’. This
requires some judgment – and this says a goal of graduate study: you have to have good judgment (otherwise very good luck) by the time you look for postdocs.
More specifics.
Graduate studies (First year)
1) Do not join a lab without a rotation!!! Simply take a look at how many people on this board have problems with their mentors and probably their careers. It is not that the PIs are always evil, but it is all about chemistry. Also, different people are good at different experiments and
techniques. It is difficult to know whether you will fit the chemistry or what you are good at without a trial. Rotation is a good thing and will only help you. This is especially important for Chinese students whom come directly from college. Most American students have 1-3 years research technician experience and they know better what they need. Chinese students
should compensate by doing a couple more rotations. Also remember that the sole purpose of rotation is to find a thesis lab. Don’t waste your chance to go to a lab just to learn a technique (without the possibility of stay).
2) You don’t have to do the same thing that you did for your college thesis. Starting fast is not necessary, and nobody expects that for a student. Starting properly is important. I have seen people want to do biochemistry (this is not to disrespect biochemistry) simply because they
spend 3 month before college graduation in doing that. Learning a new technique is not that difficult. I have done biochemistry, molecular biology, electrophysiology, imaging, microscopy and EM in my short career. They are just not that hard. It is silly not to try something because you have not done it before.
3) It is interesting that Chinese students tend to go to big and well established labs while American students go to more junior or smaller labs. Again, most American students have 1-3 years research technician experience and they know better what they need. Graduate school is a place to get trained properly. High profile publication is not ultimately important for a graduate student (obviously it is a bonus), but the ability to think and judge is important. Unless you feel that you are very matured and independent, going to a smaller lab means more time to interact with the PI and the chance to learn much more in thinking and judging. I join a very well established lab for my Ph.D. Although I come out with nice publications, I regret it. I had very nice relationship with my mentor, but there are a lot of mistakes along the way that I could have avoided if my mentor was more hand-on.
4) Class scores are not that important. Chinese students tend to spend too much time preparing for exams. You want to do OK in your classes, and the classes are designed to give you a broad exposure to up-to-date biological knowledge and technology. However, don’t spend two weeks full time before an exam to prepare for it. You could lose your chance to join a
good lab that is more important for your future (rotation is for PI to choose his/her students as well). I failed the biggest course for my graduate study. Anyone cares? Nobody.
5) Do not join a lab without a semi-formal labmeeting! Very soon, you will need to present your work all the time. Without a labmeeting, you lose the chance to practice. You also lose the chance to get feedback from peers and could be blind to what others are doing in the lab – both lead to a
lack of training in critical thinking and judgment.
Graduate study (later years)
1) Reading papers. This should apply to first year students as well. Having a few hundred papers in your belly is the best jump start in research. I don’t mean those papers you scan through within a few minutes. These have to be the papers that you read carefully and discuss with others. You have to know (at least conceptually) what the paper try to say, what technique they use and what is each experiment about. You should judge why this is a Nature paper instead of a JBC or vice versa. You should see others opinions and compare them to your own understanding, especially when you are still junior. Don’t bother one person too much though. What I did a while back was to make an appointment with a senior student for one-question
-a-day, and you can do this to multiple people. Over time, knowledge accumulates (often faster than you expect), and you are ahead of your peers. It is important to note that in this country, paper goes by names. Spend effort to remember the author names.
2) Write grants. Writing grant will help you clear your mind of what to do, and give you practices to a much needed skill throughout life – writing. It also makes your CV looks good. There aren’t too many pre-doctoral grants a Chinese student can apply, but I know multiple people get one from American Heart Association – even if you are a little bit outside of the
field (e.g. hearing sensation).
3) Work hard. All who move on successfully to the next level work very hard. The most efficient way to work hard is to focus and be goal oriented while you work. Think about what you need to do before you start and finish all tasks that you have planned. Don’t spend too much time to chat around during working hours unless you are ready and capable of working extra long hours. You don’t have to work extra hours, but should be ready to come in afterhours briefly if that means pushing the experiment a day. If you don’t find yourself a very focus person (like me), then be ready to work long hours (or quit).
4) Courses. There are summer courses provide by Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory, Woods Hole and other places. They were life changing events to me. Highly recommend. You can establish connections with established scientist through these courses, and broaden your scientific horizon greatly through these courses. I further learned that science can be fun, other than all the hard works. The courses can be expensive if your mentor does not pay. But it is still worth the money even if you have to pay yourself. In general, a student benefit more from the longer Woods Hole course, while CSHL course is appropriate when your need is very specific.
5) Focus. This is a different type of focus than the work-hard session. It means don’t spread yourself thin by doing too many projects. I learn this from an American student when I was doing postdoc. This guy worked and thought on only one project at a time. If he had to start something new, he completely dropped his old one until the new one was finished. He had a
Nature, a Science and a PNAS in 4 years. He published another Nature 10 month into his postdoc. There is obvious some luck associated, but being focus and finishing each job as soon as possible are also the key.
6) Presenting your work. Don’t just go to meetings for vacation. You want to present your work at meetings. I think a poster is a better way in early years because it allows you to talk to people, get feedbacks, and establish connections. Try to go to small meetings whenever possible.
7) A balanced life. Exercises, hobbies, family and friends are the energy source for a long scientific career.
8) Move on when you are ready (graduated). You want to well plan for your postdoc when you can see yourself graduate. As soon as you graduate, move on. A big mistake of mine was to graduate then hang around in my old lab for another two years. I lost the chance to chase a lot of prestigious postdoctoral fellowships, and I lost my intensity and focus that never fully
come back to me.
9) Join your American peers. During your pastime, try to join your American classmates for activity whenever there is a chance. Science requires a package of skills. Social is one of them.
Looking for postdocs
1) As soon as you start your postdoc, the clock is ticking. You are not a student anymore and are expected to produce. If you are unsuccessful for a first postdoc, you will have a chance to switch. But after two unfruitful postdocs, your chance of move on diminishes. So don’t graduate until you are ready; and choose your postdoc lab very carefully. Most labs have to be applied one year ahead. So think early.
2) This is your last chance to choose a direction (to some degree) until you become very successful in your career. So think hard and get advice from your PI, thesis committee and others. Most importantly, follow your heart.
3) You don’t have to work in the same field as your Ph.D. lab. It may be a slow start in the beginning, but your different background could make you go further or help in establishing your unique scientific identity when you look for jobs.
4) Many people have realized that going to a big name with a good track record is a key. How to achieve that is not easy because there are only a few big names in a given field, and every graduating student is thinking the same thing. How to joining a big name lab? All the small things count. The summer course you attend, the papers you publish, the posters you present,
the meetings you go, as well as your hard work and your nice personal nature in the lab. I knew my first postoc mentor when he was still nobody in a summer course. Most people will have a chance to know a couple of big names before they graduate, the important things is that you have to impress them with what you have learned.
5) All big names come from small names. It will be a lot easier to catch them before they become very big. This takes some judgments; but if you cannot judge somebody’s potential, you are not ready to graduate yet. A graduate student three years junior than me in my Ph.D. lab went to a starting faculty. He got job the same year and me, at a very high profile place. An established PI (currently a chair of a major university) said that the best lab to go is somebody who just gets tenure – a proven PI who is still hand-on and ready to expand his program using the ideas piled up during his junior years.
6) Basically, I believe a person with good judgments can succeed by going to a PI at any level. The advantage of going to a big name is that you don’t have to judge. But without good judgment, your chance of joining a big lab is small anyway. One should also realize how many people just get buried in those big labs and think about the competition you will face once you come out. There will be another 30 years after you get your faculty position… A case study: there was a very famous lab putting 6 people in a genetic screen. Am I going to join if I am the #3-6? No way.
7) I don’t know what a good way is to write a postdoc application, but you should show specific interest in their work. Outline the problems you like (but a full proposal is too much), and mention your own expertise. Being opinionated is a good thing usually. Many PIs like technically capable people who can bring in a new dimension to the lab. I do know that there are people apply to every big name regardless of the research direction. That can serve negatively once found out. A few directions of research interest are good, but too many mean no research interest.
8) If you are invited for an interview, be well prepared.
a. Talk is the most decisive factor whether you will land the offer. It also demonstrates your presentation skill that will be crucial in your future job hunting. Give a nice talk, and explain things very well because people may not be familiar with your talk. Rehearsal enough times in front of other people in advance. If you are going to give a 30 minute talk, do not present your entire thesis talk by simply speak twice as fast (This just happened in my institute two weeks ago…). People will get lost and you will lose your chance.
b. Read all recent papers from the lab and show interests to people’s work. Be ready to ask questions – life, research environment, PI’s habit (when you talk to the lab members) and other things that you value – You need to interview the lab in addition to it interviews you. This also shows your enthusiasm to the lab. If you don’t have a chance to talk to the PI’s students/postdocs, it is usually a bad sign (unless he is a junior PI with nobody yet).
c. Dress neatly but not over-dressed. Ask helps from your female friends unless you are very confident in your taste.
d. It is OK to take the chance of ticket for a vacation, but do not ask the lab to pay for your 10-day stay (I have seen this happen).
e. Ask for specific projects to start. Going for good and immediate projects can save you a lot of time, sometimes a career.
9) A quick thought about applying to a lab that really interests you. If you don’t get direct response, you can write to their next door lab (or maybe the lab directly) and say that you have a friend at the place who you are visiting. You want to take a chance to look at the place for a few labs for potential postdoc possibility. Be sure to mention that it is a preliminary inquiry. If you are invited, it is up to you to impress the lab you like…
10) Think carefully and consider all factors, including salary and the possibility of other offers, before you accept an offer. The last thing you want to do is to back off. Science is a small community and everybody knows everybody…
11) Visa issue. UC and some other schools only give J-1 visa. If you want an H1, one trick has worked is to submit a green card application. Then you are disqualified for the J-1 visa, and HR has to get H1 for you.
Postdoc years.
1) As soon as you start your postdoc, the clock is ticking. The sweet spot to get a job is 3-8 years. Don’t laugh, because 8 years can pass very quickly. If you are beyond 10 years, forget it unless you can justify that you were sick for a few years or you have to stay home for kids.
2) The expectation to a postdoc is completely different than that to a student. A student can make mistakes, and can take time to develop; but a postdoc is supposed to be a matured scientist who can contribute immediately, and there is less room for major mistakes.
3) If there is a time to sacrifice a little bit of other things for your career, this is the time. If you cannot work long hours, try to focus as much as you can while working. But do not give up all your pastime and/or family time because they are your energy source.
4) If you work at different hours than your PI, communicate it in a casual way (e.g. during a happy hour: I had a headache today probably because I did not finish until 11 pm last night, so I cannot drink beer.) – I would not know that my student comes to work at 5 am every day if he does not tell me. Americans are very good in this kind of things, Chinese need to catch up. Good communication can help to alleviate immediate pressure from the mentor and sometimes give you more room to explore.
5) When PI asks you “how are you” or “what is up”, he usually wants to hear about your recent progress in a casual way. If all you answer is “fine”, then you may be facing more direct way of checking into your work. This is and #4 are some of the reasons why many people think American and Chinese are treated differently.
6) Write postdoctoral grant. There are at least a few of them to try. This is important whether or not you get it in the end – you can practice your writing, communicate and impress your boss, and sort out the ideas for experiments (maybe your original idea is not that interesting after all).
7) No matter how busy you are, do proper controls. With our little knowledge in biology, you never know what is going to happen. A couple of my major papers started from negative controls turning positive.
8) Be goal-oriented. Do not spread yourself too thin. All you need is one nice paper, but not 10 papers. You surely will know much faster whether one project will work or not by focusing on it. I emphasize on this in the graduate study session as well because I know lack of focus was my weak point, and probably the weak point of many students/postdocs who believe in their own capability.
9) There is no discrimination during job hunting to postdocs who did their Ph.D. in China. However, they often suffer from a few less years understanding of the American system. You will have to catch up fast, or spend a couple more years (or maybe one more postdoc) than your peers.
10) Presenting your work at meeting, going to courses and making connections. All these helps towards the final job hunting.
11) When to move on? This is different case by case. Feel free to discuss with your PI well ahead of time. It is usually better to have a paper or more at hand already. But it can also work when you have a manuscript ready to submit. The latter usually required a strong recommendation letter and a hot but not yet very competitive field. A responsible PI usually has better sense in the timing than the postdoc.
A few sporadic things.
1) Developing new projects. If you are ever in the position to develop a new project by yourself and do not have an immediate good direction, there are a couple of possibilities:
a. According to MM Poo, you can try to repeat a text book experiment using a new technique. The worst is an OK publication that confirms the early result. If anything different, you have a high profile paper.
b. Characterize your system very hard. People always go for the “lowest hanging fruits”. This often leaves a lot of parameter uncharacterized. By spending time to characterize the system, you will see a lot more details nobody has seen before. This can put you immediately ahead of everybody in the field, and can often lead to interesting hypothesis.
2) Having a family. Many people keep waiting for a good time to start a family. Well, there is no a good time until you are tenured. By that time you are likely too old. Because there is no good time, anytime is a good time. It might be slightly better to have kids after the initial ramp up
period of a graduate study or after the first a couple of years of a postdoc when you have secured your project. Having and rising kids are not easy, but they can also make you more responsible and more focused.
3) Female Scientist. There are more difficulties on the way for women to move on in academia because they usually have more family responsibilities. However, Chinese women also have some advantages. Compared to Chinese male scientists, Chinese women tend to have less language barrier and better adaptability to the different culture. Compared to American women, many Chinese women (and men) have advantages in that they often receive daily helps from parents in caring kids. Currently, most departments as well as HHMI hope to have a female faculty percentage of 25% or higher, but few meet the expectation. Therefore, there is a general emphasis in recruiting female faculties. Indeed, there has been a major department of a top n
university that only considers female candidates in the past a couple of years. So Chinese female scientists should consider your advantages before you feel so tired and decide to go a different path.
Hunting for a faculty job.
Every year, there will be somebody saying that his labmate with 2 Science papers cannot land any jobs, at least not at a good place. I hope the analysis below can make some sense.
The decision factors to make a faculty offer are very complex. With some approximation, the following formula illustrates some considerations.
A faculty offer ~ scientific potential * sustainability * departmental direction * pleasant factor / (external competition * internal competition^2);
Among which,
scientific potential ~ scientific ability * scientific future potential.
Scientific ability ~ scientific publication record * scientific originality.
Sustainability ~ funding easiness * writing skills * presentation skill * maturity/mentoring ability
Funding easiness ~ uniqueness in scientific identity * direction of funding agency
Pleasant factor ~ social skill * collaboration possibility / bad mouth about this person
In other words, getting a faculty job requires a full package. Most factors are determined way before you start your job hunting. While publication record is a very important factor, it is only one of the factors. I know a person with 5 Nature and Science papers (all primary authors) who could not land a job in the United States. There was even a departmental chair flew
over to interview him, but left without giving an offer. No everybody, including many Americans, has the entire package. As a student and a postdoc , what you need to do is to well prepare for every single factor to maximize your potential.
Below, I will discuss some practical considerations during the job hunting.
1) What publication record is good enough? This depends on your field. But even in my field, which is full of CNS papers, a friend in a top university said that they no longer look at whether this guy has a first tier paper because that most of time has something to do with the luck and
the assigned project. Still, I believe one or two above-average papers are necessary unless you are ultra-strong in other aspects.
2) Spending enough time. Even many Americans make this mistake. After spending 8-15 years to get to a point of getting a real job, most people just cannot spend a few months full time in this critical task that can affect the entire career. If your boss would not allow you to stop experiments, you should start even earlier.
3) Don’t embarrass yourself by embarrassing yourself early. Show your proposal to people, many people. Proposal is the key to judge your scientific potential, sustainability and you fitness to departmental direction. But more than a few people show their writing to few if any for
comments. This is typically for 3 reasons: embarrassment, worry about competition from colleagues and lack of time. Well, lack of invitation to interview is the biggest embarrassment, and don’t worry too much about competition before you are in a position to compete. Ideas are cheap, but positions are not. If the potential competition is really so big, then you should have worry about it before you start your postdoc. Especially for Chinese, get some American friends to check your grammar and improve the writing. Being a good colleague early on helps here – a friend basically re-wrote my proposal. Otherwise I may not get my job.
4) Different places like different proposals. First tier places want to see your big picture and see interesting proposals, while other places like to see the hints of an NIH grant. You can sometimes do a hybrid for both purposes.
5) Seminar – once you get an interview, the most decisive factor is the seminar. Like in #3, prepare your talk early and rehearsal in front of colleagues and PIs! Many people rehearsal with friends, but only 2 days (or even the day) before interview. It is too late! Unless you are a genius, your talk will be far from optimal. Remember, there will be 5-6 interviewees , and you have to be the best one. Most university will not go down the list. You have to make your audience think that this is the talk of the year. Otherwise you don’t’ even need to go. So – prepare your slides 1 month before the talk, and do your first rehearsal >2 weeks before the talk, and rehearsal in front of people every two days. It is simple, but few people do it. Also, practice starting from your first “thank you” sentence all the way to future direction. You will need to present them all, and everything counts. One particular point, while most people would agree to ~50% of the comments during rehearsal, >90% will improve the talk. So try to incorporate as many comments as possible. How to know whether you are getting the right
people to help you during rehearsal? If you don’t feel like jumping down a cliff after the first a couple of rehearsals, it is usually a sign saying that you should get another group of people to help.
6) A case study. There is a postdoc with Nature and other papers who probably worried about competition. He did not show his proposal to lab mates and did not really rehearsal in the lab. He probably is not going to get an offer. At the same time, the second author of his paper, with his own unfinished story and more helps in job hunting, landed a job in a first tier place. The first guy may still get a job next year, but by the time he starts, the second author will have several students/postdocs working on every possible project already. More competition for the first author? For sue.
7) Interview is a very involving process. Read and ask about every person who will talk to you. Think about ice breaking questions for every person. Show enthusiasm to other people’s work. Ask about life, housing, etc to show your long-term interests. Also, be proud of your work, but don’t be arrogant.
8) Dress well, but don’t be over-dressed. There was somebody who interviewed with very formal black suit almost like a Tuxedo. That was too much. Scientists are usually very casual. Very formal dressing can lead to a sense of pressure that people don’t like.
9) Chalk talk or equivalent. Not all places have chalk talks, but all places will set up an opportunity to ask you tough questions. Be well prepared. Questions can be very direct, difficult and confronting. Some of the toughest questions for me included how your technique can even work in your preparation, what the first 3 experiments you are going to do are, and what you classify yourself into (e.g. a electrophysiologist, a cell biologist, a structural biologist)… There was also people said that I don’ t think your result make sense.
10) For the few people who have 20+ interview offers, it is better to focus on 10 or so and make the most of it rather than fly for half a year without a breath… The latter often lead to underachievement.
11) Couple. In general it is better to go to a city with lots of opportunity – NY, Boston and California.
a. If you are at comparable stage. There is essentially no chance to get two jobs at one department if both of you work on similar subjects. If your directions are different, and both want to move on to faculty positions, make it clear either in the coverletter or during the interview for schools not in the three areas. Although many Americans think it is illegal to ask
about spouse, more than half of the people interviewed me (and others) asked this question. You don’t want to lie for sure. Schools will consider whenever possible, but most departments are very cautious about give two offers at the same department because firing 2 persons (if necessary) quadruples the impact of firing one person down the road. Both of you have to be very good.
b. If you two are separated by a few years, it is better to tell the school that the junior person’s plan is flexible. Otherwise the school will realize that by the time your spouse is ready for a faculty job, if the school cannot give him/her an offer, you will both leave (after you spend
all your startup but have not generated much revenue for the department).
Well, Good luck!
